Clear-headed to Dream: A Dialogue Between Reason and Emotion

At the LOXO dialogue series, instead of casual, surface-level questions, Dương Đỗ (Founder of Toong) chose a direct approach—pushing the guest, Tuấn Hải (Founder of D.A.List & The Talent), to peel back the outer layers and reveal the core of someone who has gone through 17 entrepreneurial attempts.

1. Self-made capability or the “shade” of a privileged foundation?

With an independent and somewhat rigorous perspective, Dương Đỗ began with a sharp question:
Was Hải’s success truly the result of his own abilities, or simply the advantage of a strong financial foundation from his family?

For the first time in the media, Tuấn Hải did not attempt to defend himself. Instead, he shared what he considers his true launchpad: not money, but the clarity of spirit shaped by growing up in the mountains of Thuận Châu, Sơn La. The warmth and openness of that highland environment formed his philosophy of a “multi-layered forest”—where business is not about monoculture or domination, but about coexistence and mutual growth.

Each project within his ecosystem is intentionally built to support and complement the others. Behind Hải’s seemingly emotional exterior lies a resilient entrepreneur shaped by the land where he was born.

2. Reading to absorb knowledge or to question it?

The conversation became more intense when it touched on the topic of acquiring knowledge. While Tuấn Hải emphasized the importance of reading for personal development, Dương Đỗ maintained a calmer and more cautious perspective: what is written in books is not necessarily the truth.

For Dương Đỗ, knowledge should not be passively accepted. He sees nature’s way of operating as the most important reference point. Wisdom is not measured by the number of books one has read, but by the ability to internalize lessons from books, life, and nature and transform them into one’s own understanding.

He frankly stated:

“There aren’t that many books that truly contain wisdom.”

The example of the book “Kimura’s Apple Orchard,” which Hải deeply admires, illustrates this point. Many readers become inspired by the story of natural farming but forget to verify what the orchard looks like today or whether that model works in different environments.

This does not deny the truth within the story, but without independent critical thinking, readers can easily fall into the trap of temporary emotional inspiration, mistaking it for universal truth across all contexts.

3. When a dreamer is intentional

Tuấn Hải may appear dreamy and emotional on the outside, but in reality he is an extremely clear-headed entrepreneur. His willingness to accept failure across multiple ventures—and his mindset of “at worst, I’ll return to zero”—reveals a remarkable risk appetite.

One example is the kitchen explosion that forced him to close Salad Club, a brand he had built with great dedication for a year. When recounting the incident, Hải spoke with notable composure. While he admitted the event shattered his belief that he was always lucky, his tone reflected someone capable of moving forward beyond setbacks.

He is aware of his weaknesses and uses data and technology to compensate for gaps in his management.

Throughout the conversation, Hải maintained a clear and personal line of reasoning—even when speaking about love. His success is partly fueled by romanticism. Without love, it would be difficult to create inspiring spaces like A+C Coffee Experience. It is the vibrant beauty of someone who is both in love and loved in return.

The dialogue ultimately shows that emotion and reason, love and business, innocence and courage can coexist. In the end, we do not necessarily have to eliminate one to achieve the other if we seek a fuller experience of life.

Dương Đỗ: If you were a tree, what kind would you be?
Tuấn Hải: I would be… a gardener.

Dương Đỗ: If you were an animal?
Tuấn Hải: A fish—exploring the depths of the ocean.

Dương Đỗ: If you were a mineral?
Tuấn Hải: A feng shui stone—colorful and beautiful.

Edited by Toong Editorial (Content summarized from the conversation between Dương Đỗ and guest Tuấn Hải in the LOXO program).

[Watch the full podcast episode: Tuấn Hải & Dương Đỗ | WHY READING MANY BOOKS MAY MAKE YOU… LESS WISE? | TUẤN HẢI (CEO THE A LIST)]

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqQyykSTJgA

Spotify: https://bit.ly/ceotuanhai